In the 45 minute talk, we discuss both talks I'll be doing at the conference, first "Hidden Gems in the CF8 Monitor" and then "Step Debugging in CF 6/7/8". The first is a condensation of my 4-part series of articles in the Adobe DevCenter, where I highlight the most compelling tips, tricks, and traps I found. I think many will be surprised by them, and in the interview I share several from the talk.

Matt also asked me about how it compares to FusionReactor and SeeFusion, and I shared my thoughts for why there's a place for all, and along those lines (of how competing things fit together), he also asked me my thoughts on the open sourcing of BD/J2EE.

Of course, one of the things I clarified was that I left New Atlanta nearly 2 years ago (next week). Many seem not to have gotten that memo! But I explain more, including why I'm not so sure it will light the world on fire as a "free CFML engine" though it may well help a lot of people, so check out the discussion if you're interested in that topic.

I also shared some news that I've never blogged about nor spoken much about: the fact that when the roles of CF Product Manager (when Tim stepped down 2 years ago) and CF Evangelist (when Ben knew a few months ago that he was moving up to lead all the Evangelists in Adobe) first became available, I had the distinct honor of having been asked first (so I was told) if I wanted those roles. It's hard for that not to sound self-aggrandizing, which is why I've not mentioned it publicly, but I mentioned it in the interview to make the point to listeners that I really am all about CF now, and that plenty of folks at Adobe did realize I was still very much a CF community guy all along.

Anyway, I explained that I didn't take the roles simply because in the first case, the product manager role, it would have involved relocation to Boston (love Atlanta's weather too much, plus I was enrolled in an Atlanta-based seminary at the time). In the second case, Ben's role, it would have been awesome, but we all know it involves a LOT of travel. My wife and I just didn't want to be apart so much and so often (and again there are those seminary studies). It was tough to say no, but as I mentioned in the interview, of course Adobe got great folks for the roles ultimately, in Jason and Adam, respectively.

The interview concluded with my discussion of the Step Debugging talk I'll give at cf.o. I explained how it will cover both the CF8 Debugger (useful only on CF8) and FusionDebug (which can run on 6, 7, and 8). I explained (as I have many times) how though they're both based on Eclipse, that needn't be a show-stopper.

I explained how FusionDebug even offers an installer that bundles Eclipse, CFEclipse, and FusionDebug all at once, which is a great help for those challenged to install it (though it's also available as an add-in). I noted that the CF8 debugger is available only as an add-in, which can be a challenge to some, but I pointed out (as I have previously) that my 25-page chapter on the CF8 debugger, in the CFWACK, is available online. That should really help those who've been challenged to get started with the CF8 debugger. Anyway, I'll explain a lot more about using the debugger, and when/why/how one should, in the talk at the conference.

So, though I didn't plan it, I guess this interview was as much a show about how I'm not any one company's guy. :-) Whether it's supporting the CF8 monitor or FusionReactor/SeeFusion, the CF8 debugger or FusionDebug, CF or the other CFML engines, or even the consulting I do (done mostly on my own, but also some for Intergral and for Universal Mind, as I mentioned), I'm out here just trying to help where I can, whoever I can, however I can. :-) I just want to share info or tools and let folks make their own decisions. (In that regard, be sure also to check out my list of 400+ tools/resources for CFers and the CF Meetup that I run.)

Anyway, it took only a few minutes for you to read this entry. I think you'll enjoy the full 45 minute version in the podcast, which you can just click here to listen to the MP3 (no need to have an Ipod!).

Well here's the thing: you can indeed get CF server monitoring, whether added to CF8 or made available in CF 6 or 7, and for far less than even double the cost of CF Standard. Some of you know where I'm going, but in case it needs to be said...

Check out FusionReactor and SeeFusion, both tools that I've written about before (see the "related entries" links at the bottom of this entry.)

Both these tools not only run on 8 (any edition), but they run on 7 and 6 as well, which CF 8's monitor does not. Further, FusionReactor can monitor not just CF but also any J2EE servers or app (including LiveCycle Data Services, for instance), and SeeFusion has a sister product, SeeJava, that can do this as well.

I've been a huge fan of both tools for a couple of years. No, they're not identical to CF8's monitor, and CF 8's monitor has access to a lot of information that those tools don't (for now, though they could be modified to access it as well, via the Admin API if running on CF8 Enterprise). But even until then there are features each of them has that CF's monitor doesn't, and vice versa.

I know some instead want Adobe to offer the monitor somehow to those on Standard, whether at some price or in some new edition. The chances of that seem seem pretty slim for now, though certainly interested folks should make their concern known. And certainly, it's worth noting that one can run the CF8 monitor on the Developer edition.

But some rightly point out that they want CF server monitoring in production and they can't use Adobe's on CF8 standard (or on 6 or 7). (And they're asking for more than just monitors to tell if the server's up or down, etc. Sure there are plenty of tools to tell that, but they want real insight into the processing of requests, threads, queries and more, which only these tools can do.)

I just want to make sure those folks know there are indeed good, professionally managed alternatives to get that on CF8 standard and earlier versions of CF, and those options are at low costs and come with free trials. (Same goes for step debugging. While the new debugger in CF8 works only with 8, FusionDebug, from the same company that makes FusionReactor, works in 6, 7, and 8.)

As I wrote before, I don't feel that the availability of the CF8 monitor (or debugger) diminishes the value of the third party tools for those on CF8. Keep an eye on the monitoring category here in my blog as I'll continue to write more about all 3 monitors in the future. They each have their strengths and their place.

A natural question on the minds of many is whether Adobe's entry into these markets is a death knell for these vendors? I don't think so, at all. Here are just a few reasons why. I'm sure I (and others) will think of more. Comments are indeed welcome.

1. Are you running 6, 7, or 8? - First of all, it's vital to keep in mind that the new CF 8 tools work only with CF 8. If you're still on CFMX 6 or 7, then you can't use the CF 8 debugger or monitor. I've heard some who thought that the new CF 8 Debugger might work worth the earlier releases. It does not. Of course, it's indeed another strong incentive to move up to CF 8, and there are more and more reasons being released all the time. But until you do, you can't benefit from them. Both SeeFusion and FusionReactor/FusionDebug work with CF 6, 7, and 8 (and the monitor tools also work with BlueDragon/J2EE and should work with Railo, Smith, and others.)

2. Do you have more than just CF to monitor? - Indeed, another point in the favor of the third-party monitoring tools is that more than just CFML servers, they indeed work with any Java server. And that's not just tools like Tomcat, JBoss, WebLogic, and WebSphere, but also includes other Adobe-specific tools that are also J2EE server-based, like Flex/LiveCycle Data Services, the older Flex 1.5, and more, and of course the Adobe J2EE server, JRun. FusionReactor's installer and "add server" feature will both recognize any of these automatically so that the one FusionReactor Enterprise Dashboard monitor can watch all such services, while SeeFusion offers a separate SeeJava product for watching such J2EE servers.

3. Does one size really fit all? - Another point to keep in mind is that each of the tools still do something that the other does not. I've said the same when contrasting SeeFusion and FusionReactor, and I can now say the same of them and the new CF 8 tools. Each can have their place in a developer/administrator's toolbelt. I could even argue that one could/should have them all, for whatever benefit each offers. The prices are low enough that it's not much of an issue.

4. CF 8 monitor API is public - With regard to the new monitor in CF8, Adobe has made it clear that it's just a particular (albeit very nice) Flex interface on top of an underlying API of admin CFCs that anyone can call. Naturally, this means that the other monitor tools could easily add whatever feature they (or users) may think must be added. (The FusionReactor folks will announce plans at CFUnited for integrating CF8 monitoring features into FusionReactor, so we should see some benefits and cooperation taking place.) Again, though, perhaps the reasons above may diminish the significance of needing to "keep up". Perhaps they can peacefully coexist.

5. If a tree falls in Times Square, it will make a sound - One can argue that a benefit of the new CF 8 monitor and debugger tools is that they will raise the profile of--and interest in the CF community for--such tools. And of course competition also breeds innovation. I think we already saw that between the two monitor tools themselves (and indeed between CF and BD, and others). In fact, still another outgrowth of this will be an increase in the opportunities for skilled folks (like those at these companies) to help CF developers make the most of the mass of information that these tools all provide. That will serve both companies well, since they each do training and consulting.

6. The past is prologue - Further to the last point, let's keep in mind that we can only compare the new CF 8 tools to the current versions of their third-party counterparts. Both Intergral and Webapper have told me (and others) that they've known these things were coming and have been considering enhancements for quite some time. The companies will be in a great position to watch and see what things people like (or don't like) about the CF 8 tools. I mentioned Intergral's plans above, and the SeeFusion folks are talking about extending their product to provide actual problem-solving intelligence, beyond just exposing metrics. Of course, we can expect Adobe will continue to evolve the tools as well (both before the final release and in later ones).

7. An abundance of riches - Finally, consider how fortunate we are in the ColdFusion community to have third party vendors who take risks to enhance the CF toolset and bring new and exciting professional tools to market--even before Adobe! We should support them if indeed they provide solutions to our problems. To the degree that we do (and they do), they will continue to survive.

Clearly I'm high on the entire CF tools market and think there's a place for all the companies and their tools.

Even so, there are some things that the CF8 monitor and debugger do add that are not currently in the other tools, and there's no doubt that for many, if they're moving to CF8 they may be happy with what they get built into those tools.

But it's not a zero-sum game with only one possible winner. Even if only a small fraction of the market remains interested in and using the 3rd party tools, whether because using the older CF releases, or for the features they offer, that's still a decent market for the toolmakers. And as they (and the market) evolve, the third party tools should continue to gain new fans.

I'll be writing (and speaking) quite a bit about both of the new CF 8 tools, as well as those from the other vendors, and how they all compare now and into the future.

It's just more testimony of why it's now really a great time to be involved in CFML.

Both SeeFusion and FusionReactor are based on an underlying java-based mechanism called Servlet filters. On the surface, it might seem that things should work since the standalone versions of BD are built atop ServletExec (just as CFMX standard and enterprise standalone editions are built atop JRun).

Sadly, the edition of ServletExec that New Atlanta chose to bundle under BD (a choice made a few years ago) does not support servlet filters. ServletExec itself has indeed supported servlet filters for a few years; it's just that New Atlanta never had any motivation to update the version that was underlying BlueDragon. Who knows if that may change in the upcoming BD 7.

The good news is that it seems you can indeed use both SeeFusion and FR with BD/J2EE. I've previously done the former, and my reading of the FR docs for now suggest it would work fine. The installer guide for FR has a section on "manually installing FR", and where it discusses the directories to be updated for working with Tomcat and Jboss, it's really the same info that would apply to BlueDragon deployed on those servers (or any like them). (I've tried it tonight and hit a snag, and the guys from FR are working with me to get through it. I'll update with a comment here whatever I find.)

Finally, of course, BD.NET doesn't support servlet filters at all, so you can't use SeeFusion or FusionReactor on that product.